My Buddy Jose

[Shant]

Hello again,

Just thought you guy's would get a kick out of this,This car belongs to a friend named Jose.
This car is badass! Nothing left behind.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d732b3127ccebbc1c221e1b100000026100AaNmLhs4ZMW Mg
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d732b3127ccebbc1b5e4a1d700000026100AaNmLhs4ZMW Mg
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d732b3127ccebbc1b559205a00000026100AaNmLhs4ZMW Mg
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d732b3127ccebbc1cd49207600000026100AaNmLhs4ZMW Mghttp://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d732b3127ccebbc1c15ca15500000026100AaNmLhs4ZMW Mg
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7d732b3127ccebbc1b68fe12500000026100AaNmLhs4ZMW Mg

Now that's a sweet ride!

[pwr2wh8]

meh...it's alright...j/k! i still won't forget the first time i saw his mini as he drove past me, i was in awe!

[Meno]

Clearly the nicest dash board of all time!

[magic robots]

That is gorgeous. I've always loved purple.

[Ironraven]

Yeah, that dash is awesome. I have similar plans for mine; if mine turns out half as nice I'll be happy.

[steve]

By far the nicest car I have seen; still don't like the big wheels and flares though.

[Ironraven]

By far the nicest car I have seen; still don't like the big wheels and flares though.

Do you like traction?

[steve]

a lot of people seem to think that 12s and 13s will provide more traction than the 10s. I think it is negligable, and un sprung weight nearly DOUBLES with the big thick cast wheels, heavy wide tires, the typical massivly heavy 9"-plus vented rotors, excessively fat track rods, heavy coil over shocks, etc.

The car does not have tires and wheels attached; the tires and wheels have a car attached!

Results: the car is not heavy enough to hold the wheels down well; if the springs have a light rate, the tires just bounce around; Bad for handling. if the springs are stiffer, the un sprung weight bounces the car around; Also bad for handling. The car can actually have less traction with the big heavy wheels than small light ones in cornering situations, and are easier on the suspension components.

The only cures are reducing the un sprung weight or adding weight untill things are back in ballance. Of course any body knows that adding weight to the car is counter productive for acceleration. So, instead of reducing weight, what to many of you do is add more power. right?
That's OK, but not the best way to go; more power and a heavier vehicle means: first, more build costs up front, then the drive train, and the whole car for that matter, sees more stresses, leading to a higher rate of parts/system failures,(less reliability), faster wear, worse efficiency (fuel economy). A light car can be just as quick as a more powerful, heavier car, and without any of the above mentioned negative effects.

All that aside, my personal opinion on the big tires is they just look butt-ugly on Minis; some will disagree, but they do take-away from the "uniqueness" of the car. Any slight traction advantages there may be,(in straight line driving), do not come close to canceling out the negative effects and appearance.

I was bored.

[magic robots]

I totally agree with everything you say (except I don't think 13"s are ugly, I just think they're way less nice looking than 10"s, especially with racing rubber on 'em). I have a performance question though. Will the larger brakes that fit under 13" rims allow for better braking performance throughout the course of a track event? And will this counter any of the handling drawbacks of the heavier wheels?

[steve]

Magic, Good point; larger brakes have the potential for stopping the car quicker if the smaller brakes are not adequate. You can get 8.4 rotors inside 10 inch modular wheels like Spectrums and MBs. (I have the MBs). You need to use the 6 pot KAD calipers which have a thinner bridge. These are VERY light calipers as are the wheels. Both are pricy but well worth it in my opinion. I also plan on going to inverted, alloy shocks, and Titanium rotors, and drive flanges; even more pricy and surely not for everyone.

[magic robots]

That is no joke; I wish I had the funding to even consider what you're talking about! You'll have what, 16 pounds of unsprung weight?! :shock:

[N. J.]

My recollection is that published articles note that Mini is too light to properly load 13's sufficienlty to take full advantage of the contact patch(es) available. If it's really important to the group, I can dive into my library to find the correct citation.
Beyond that, "the look" of 13's is affected by the surrounding bodywork. For example, with Sportpack arches or as it's been generally noted in the Mini press, 13's don't seem to stand out as much on Clubbies; likewise on extended fronts needed for RHD conversions (without moving the steering rack).
I have 9.5" vented discs and four-pot calipers and even those are clearanced. So, unless I went with some radical offset of a smaller diameter wheel, 13's are the order of the day. Mind you, I like the "wide stance" appearance and so I've no issues there.

N J

[Ironraven]

a lot of people seem to think that 12s and 13s will provide more traction than the 10s. I think it is negligable, and un sprung weight nearly DOUBLES with the big thick cast wheels, heavy wide tires, the typical massivly heavy 9"-plus vented rotors, excessively fat track rods, heavy coil over shocks, etc.

The car does not have tires and wheels attached; the tires and wheels have a car attached!

Results: the car is not heavy enough to hold the wheels down well; if the springs have a light rate, the tires just bounce around; Bad for handling. if the springs are stiffer, the un sprung weight bounces the car around; Also bad for handling. The car can actually have less traction with the big heavy wheels than small light ones in cornering situations, and are easier on the suspension components.

The only cures are reducing the un sprung weight or adding weight untill things are back in ballance. Of course any body knows that adding weight to the car is counter productive for acceleration. So, instead of reducing weight, what to many of you do is add more power. right?
That's OK, but not the best way to go; more power and a heavier vehicle means: first, more build costs up front, then the drive train, and the whole car for that matter, sees more stresses, leading to a higher rate of parts/system failures,(less reliability), faster wear, worse efficiency (fuel economy). A light car can be just as quick as a more powerful, heavier car, and without any of the above mentioned negative effects.

All that aside, my personal opinion on the big tires is they just look butt-ugly on Minis; some will disagree, but they do take-away from the "uniqueness" of the car. Any slight traction advantages there may be,(in straight line driving), do not come close to canceling out the negative effects and appearance.

I was bored.

Any modification without planning for the car is going to detract from its performance unless you are really lucky. Modern wheels weigh a lot less than the steel-reinforced rubber tires that sit on them; even large wheels. There's also the matter of gearing, if you use 10" wheels on a transmission designed for 15 or 17" wheels you are going to see a pretty drastic reduction in fuel economy and hit or miss performance.

The traction gained by increasing the wheel diameter is mostly noticeable from a dead stop, and even then it's not going to be very noticeable unless you adjust your suspension and toe settings appropriately. Properly tuning your setup is key.

You talk about adding weight... the extra weight of the Honda engine and custom sub frame add at LEAST 20 pounds to the weight of the car (and that's using the Alexander/Ramco frame, the lightest on the market to my knowledge) and subsequently you must, again, tune your car's suspension to handle the extra weight.

How do you expect to compensate for the added weight, horse power and torque of a VTEC swap without changing your wheels? I'm genuinely curious...

You are entitled to your personal opinion about "big" (lol @ 13" wheels being big...) looking bad, I won't try and sway you there. Personally I think wide tires and fat flares ADD to the unique look of a classic mini. It changes the car from being "cute" to looking like it means business. There is, of course, a limit to how big you can go before it looks silly... personally I think 13's are about as big as you can go without making the car look like an offroad vehicle with a lift kit.

[steve]

Iron, I agree with you on just about everything you said except for the appearance. The 13" tires do weigh more than the 10s; gearing is important but not problematic; the integra LS tranny has the right high gears for most 10 inch wheel applications except drag racing. Check out my post on gear ratios. Again, drag racing is the only place where forward traction could be an issue with 10s. I am assumiung that most of our builders are not going competitive drage racing with the major front drive disadvantage. Most of us are road/autocross guys, which is where the Mini really shines.
The right tires on 10" wheels will not just work "as well" but better, for just about all conditions.
Maybe some day we will have a chance to race together and compare track times. How about Mini Meet West? Come out early and help me set up the course!
Cheers.

[mininut]

Hi Guy's in all this talk about wheel size there has been a point not being considered. That is tire diameter. I took 155/70/10's off my Mini and put 175/50/13's on. outer dia. was less than 1/2 inch different. Did add 1/4 inch spacer to stop rubbing the swing arm. So I am going to try 205/50/10's first on my vtech and if that doesn't work I will switch to 175/50/13's. I have original Cooper S disc brakes, if they won't stop it I'll switch to bigger brakes. Thanks, Mike.

[steve]

I never heard of 205/50-10s except for golf cart and trailor tires which are pretty squirmy rubber! You're right on the tire diameters; there is not much difference, 10s to 13s. the big diff is wheel weight. My 10s weigh 4.8 LBs Ea. I weighed a friends "super lights" 13s at over 12 pounds ea.

[magic robots]

4.8 pounds! Are those magnesium 10's? Dag.

I'm assuming that was the rim only -- did you weigh them with tires on too? I wonder if that would be closer because of more rubber on the 10's.

[Ironraven]

Iron, I agree with you on just about everything you said except for the appearance. The 13" tires do weigh more than the 10s; gearing is important but not problematic; the integra LS tranny has the right high gears for most 10 inch wheel applications except drag racing. Check out my post on gear ratios. Again, drag racing is the only place where forward traction could be an issue with 10s. I am assumiung that most of our builders are not going competitive drage racing with the major front drive disadvantage. Most of us are road/autocross guys, which is where the Mini really shines.
The right tires on 10" wheels will not just work "as well" but better, for just about all conditions.
Maybe some day we will have a chance to race together and compare track times. How about Mini Meet West? Come out early and help me set up the course!
Cheers.

If my mini's finished I'd LOVE to come to the mini meet west and although I've never driven a road course OR an autoX course I'd also jump at the chance to race 8) if you're experienced (the "Driver Mod" is the least expensive, most time consuming AND most overlooked modification there is :P ) your times will likely be better than mine no matter what wheel and tire combo either one of us has but it'd be fun anyways. If the wife lets me out of the house for a weekend I'm totally there!

Since I'm using a D-series engine I can't use an LS tranny... and since my car's not a dedicated track car and will be daily driven I want to make sure I get decent fuel economy so I'd want to use 13" wheels regardless. Just curious; do you dislike Sportspack mini's? Didn't they come stock with 13" wheels?

Edit: One other thing... how is ground clearance with 10" wheels and a VTEC swap? I've noticed that the exhaust hangs pretty low, even on minis with 13" wheels

http://shim1.shutterfly.com/procgserv/47b7d700b3127cce9854820dd8e700000027108AbtmbJu4cuO

[steve]

Iron, Our frames are designed for the B series only. It probably would need a little tweaking for the D lump; different mounts at least. With only about 1/2" diff in tire height, 10s to 13s, RPMs would not change more than 100 at cruise; virtually no advantage there. 1/2" increase in diameter only raises the car 1/4" too. Given the extra tread width on the 13's, hence friction, both road and air, fuel economy may be worse, not better. Wide tires usually reduce fuel economy. Then, it's back to appearance preferences again.
All VTEC swap frames reduce ground clearance somewhat. The Ramco is about 1/2" better than the MT. Ride height can be adjustable with Suspension upgrades. I plan to drop mine until I start scraping off the Bott's Dots!
I believe the largest OEM wheels supplied on Minis were 12's.