Anybody Running 14" Wheels?

[william75]

post some pix, and what size tires are you running?

[pwr2wh8]

would you be running them in the front only? if not, you may have to slightly modify your rear radius arm for extra clearance as the smallest tire for a 14" is around 22" tall.

[william75]

thats fine, what size tire would that be? what are you running on yours? PM me your cell # if you can.

Will

[pwr2wh8]

that would be for a 185/55/14 & 205/50/14

[N. J.]

So what was the outcome here? Is anyone running 14" wheels, and if so, what size tires?

[steve]

NJ, the biggest tires you can fit, is determined mainly by the rear swing arm radius. you can trim the outer arm mounting brackets for a little extra clearance; just measure from wheel center forward to the brackets and double it for tire diameter max size, and get a tire that clears. If you want your mini reasonably low, you will need to radius out the arches accordingly, as I recently did. If you are using stock front fenders, you will need to radius out the forward part of the wells, so the tire edges don't touch when you turn left/right, as well, assuming standard wheel base is being used.
Any further reports on driving impressions? Able to spin the rear tires yet?

[N. J.]

Steve - All good info for stock suspensions and sheet metal! I'd radiused the front arch lips when I went to 13" wheels a few years back. 185/60-13 @ 21.7" D is about the largest tire that will work on the rear with stock swing arms. They require rounding off the bottom of the outer bracket, the one surrounding the grease nipple, to clear. Unfortunately, they aren't available in road tires anymore, so my bit of added trivia is moot.
ANYway... re: swing arms, yes, that would be true if I still had them. My rear wells are widened (the last time I saw someone used "tubbed" it stated a flame war), the rear suspension is custom for the AWD and the (extended) front clip is F/G, so no issues there.
So far the biggest thing to report is that the torque steer is no longer an issue. Other than that, it's been 95-100º around here, so I haven't been out much, maybe 200 miles total on the new setup. With 'only' 225 hp I won't be spinning the rears anytime soon. I did have the fronts slip oh, maybe 1/16 revolution before the LSD and AWD put a stop to it. I was backing into a parking spot on a damp lot with the wheels turned. It was more like "Hey! Did those fronts just slip a bit? I think the system just kicked in".

[steve]

Well then I see no issues with you using 14s then; one of the guys at MMW was using them on his Hayabusa rear engine car, and ran the autocross amazingly well for an 1850 pound Mini. I still can't believe his times; faster than me by a second, but still a couple seconds slower than my car with Mike Kimball driving it. I would guess that if Mike had driven the Busa, it might have been the fastest car there. His setup was not typical, obviously, with both front and rear Miata sub frames and suspension, and the rear half of the car had been split down the middle and "pried" apart 4" total, so the tires were completely covered without using any flares. Beautiful job too......best engineered car there, in my opinion, just way heavy, but he drove it to the event, like me; a big plus in my book.
Cheers, SA
PS; I wouldn't want you to feel like you were "abusing" your car, but if you could see your way clear to dump the clutch, (gently), from RPM, to see if the rears get enough power for them to spin, I would be grateful. I promise not to ask if you can drift it.

[steve]

pics of the widened Busa Mini with 14s

[jimfai]

i have had them on 2 classics, one turbo 1275 pushing 14 lbs of boost, rear was tubbed slightly to also allow for coil overs, other one was a zeemax clubman kit with geoff watsons conversion using a 1.6 rover engine. the front of his kits uses a rover front subby that is already set up for 14's and he uses a huge (and i do mean huge) spacer on the rear wheels to push them out so have enough room around the shock tower. hi los are also needed.

[N. J.]

I remember seeing those Watson spacers, 4" as I recall, to keep the rears even with the fronts based on K motor frames and thinking 'OMG!'.
My issue is that I can only find 14" wheels with nearly 5" backspacing, which puts me well into my coilovers. The genesis of all this is a 4.7 final drive and no aftermarket higher (lower numerically) FDs to fit the CR-V tranny. I run out of first gear very quickly and would rather not run the higher revs at highway speeds.
The only 13" tires I can find with a larger D than my current ones are 215/50-13's, which require larger arches. If you're not careful, the result of going that route can look almost cartoonish.

[steve]

NJ, I found you the perfect tire for your 13s; A new "street tire" either 20.6 or a wide one that is 20.8 tall. http://www.hoosiertire.com/pdfs/STTDS.pdf
Pricy, but not considering what you already laid out. If I had to run 13s, this is what I would use.

[N. J.]

Thanks, Steve. I appreciate the legwork!
The 20.8 wouldn't help much, but the next size up would. You correctly put "street tire" in quotation marks, 'cuz they're not. Yeah, they are definitely pricey. Re: "...not considering what you already laid out.", everyone has a limit, I'm approaching mine and then there's the ongoing cost of replacing tires with a UTQG rating about a tenth of street tires. Then there's also this gem on the STT D page:
"DOT labeled Hoosier Racing Tires meet Department of Transportation requirements for marking and performance only and are NOT INTENDED FOR HIGHWAY USE.
It is unsafe to operate any Hoosier Racing Tire including DOT tires on public roads. The prohibited use of Hoosier Racing Tires on public roadways may result in loss of traction,
unexpected loss of vehicle control, or sudden loss of tire pressure, resulting in a vehicle crash and possible injury or death."
Litigation-driven, for sure, but EEEewwwwfff.

[steve]

Yes, that is purely a liability driven statement....I kinda figured it would stick in your throat; though you have to ask yourself why they would head up the page in bold print "NEW STREET TIRE LINE" if they didn't expect most of them to see road use, esp since they put the disclaimer in another part of their site;(I didn't find it). I would have no problems running those tires on the road; practically everything on my car falls into that category, as either home-made or "not for street use", including the NON dot Goodyear Eagle slicks I drove on at MMW, at up to 120MPH on the highway. They are SAE racing tires made for 600 pound formula cars, running 7 to 12 PSI air pressure; (I was using 32 psi); still alive and kicken though; practically everything fun or good is dangerous and illeagal. I would run them all the time, except for the fact that race slicks are thin and tend to pick up road debri, therefor go flat quite often. Realistically, I doubt that you would ever wear them out, with your conservative driving style; Do you think you will be driving it over 10,000 miles? I have owned my yellow car for 11 years and don't think I have done 10,000 miles in it so far. Just trying to be realistic with your tire availability issue. I am pretty sure you could still find a set of acceptable 13" tires somewhere on this planet.
BTW, why won't a 20.6" tall tire fit your car? That's only an inch taller than a 10; or 1/2" on the radius.

[N. J.]

I've no frame of refence for longevity of racing tires in street apps. At around 1600 miles/year, if they would last 8000 miles I'd be OK with it, though I do drive in the rain, another consideration. OTOH, I wore the shoulders off a set of Bridgestone Ziex 512's in about 3000 miles. (OK they were @28#'s pressure, I ran the Dragon and around Lake Burton con gusto) Re: I am pretty sure you could find some acceptable 13" tires somewhere on this planet. , I hope you're right. Both my previous and current attempts to date have been futile. As I don't have any contacts in Russia (the only place I could find sizes that suit the last go-around), I'll have to call on some UK and Polish contacts to find out. (If the guy in Poland is still speaking to me. I ticked him off pretty good the last time we worked together).

Cheers,

[steve]

NJ, 28 psi doesn't sound to bad. probably just needed a bit more neg camber or some caster up front. Usually tire wear like that is from incorrect toe adjustment or loose/worn suspension bushings, that change toe-in at speed. I set mine on an incline, so everything is pre loaded first.
Can't imagine you ticking anyone off? Me, yes.... you, No.
Good luck on you search. Maybe you can scrape a few more miles out of your old tires.....I run mine down till the cord shows; that 3/32" tread thing is industry propaganda, designed to sell more tires, and maybe for old ladies that don't know the difference between wet and dry road traction limitations.

[N. J.]

Ya know, I didn't think so either, but both inside and outside shoulders went away; classic sign of underinflation.
I have my moments. When I design a machine layout and someone unilaterally changes it, mortgaging future space because they don't look ahead and don't give me even the courtesy of a call to tell me, yeah, I react negatively. But, hey, now that I'm retired it'll be someone else's problem.
The existing 195/45 Contisports are virtually new. I got them not too much before my bypass in Sept. '09, and just haven't driven much until now. If I'm going to make a change, I'd rather make it while I can still get a few bucks out of them to offset the cost of the change.

[steve]

I must have missed something....if the 195/45s are near new and are working for you, why are you looking for something else?

[N. J.]

Ah!
From above (and MM "Ultralite" thread)...

The genesis of all this is a 4.7 final drive and no aftermarket higher (lower numerically) FDs to fit the CR-V tranny. I run out of first gear very quickly and would rather not run the higher revs at highway speeds.
Essentially the same deal as you swapping out your FD.

[steve]

Ok, but I knew that, I thought you were trying to keep the tires small enough to fit your wheel wells and swing arm brackets. you obviously can't have it both ways; anything big enough for decent gearing is going to hit things. You can have a custom Final Drive set made like I did, by getting a group together. You might have to invest in future sales, to make the minimum order; looks like there will be more of these CRV kits sold. Maybe Norman could take some. I am still a bit in the red with my group buy, but I ordered extra sets that I have yet to sell.

[jimfai]

Russia (the only place I could find sizes that suit the last go-around), so they were snow tires than ? :) do you know what snow is NJ?

[N. J.]

Yeah, LOL!! Actually, my birthday is in November and I'm from Philadelphia, so I learned to drive in it. My Mother took me out to a shopping center parking lot (my Father didn't have the patience) and taught me how to turn into the skid. After stints in Sandusky and Cleveland, OH, I moved here to the ATL from Central PA where:

1) A town about 45 minutes from me would vie with International Falls for coldest daily temps.
2) There was 40" of that white stuff on the ground at one time.
3) The low temps knocked the paint off the mural on my van (hey, it was the 70's).
4) Joe, "Well, this year's a rebuilding year for us." Paterno could be elected Pope.

I'm a Damnyankee, viz. I'm not going back!

[steve]

It has never snowed around here; if it did, I would move south, on the next warm day. It looks so nice on TV, but I have seen and felt snow a few times, in the high mountains, and can't for the life of me, understand why anyone would want to live in it; probably why California is so damn crowded.

[jimfai]

man i thought i posted here earlier but i dont see it? anyway, steve, try not to get too down on george on the mini mania thread. i want to get a public answer from him and i doubt he will have reason not to give it. i dont want them to block it or lock it, do you know any of the history with this guy?

[steve]

Yeah, I am done with my rant there. As usual, it's like talking to a stone wall. I have been at odds with the Power Monger/ Grief slingers all my life. they are the bottom rung of the Politician, Judge, Lawyer, ladder; the "bottom feeders" of society. Only thing I know about George is he is very well off, has a bunch of restored Minis(all legal of course), and isn't to brite about what he posts on a forum where his intent is to crush other peoples Minis if they don't meet legal standards. "If you are unsure about the legality of your Mini, I will inspect it for you" (if there is a problem, I will make the car even smaller for you, thus providing you with more garage space). I don't know him personally, just been on a couple events with him, he seemed ok, but now I know his colors.

[N. J.]

Would it make a difference by phrasing it thus: "If you're looking at a Mini and are in doubt as to it's legality, I will inspect it for you."? Steve, given your stated anti-establishment view of law enforcement (you really gotta break out of that shell, man!) I'm sure it would not to you. My view is that, while having less of an edge, that's still a veiled invitation to put more feathers in his "I busted another one!" cap. That tells me that if he's "...only doing his job", his job is to find illegally imported Minis and send the owners to prosecution, not find stolen cars. Only one in three of those cited was stolen. That's a good average in baseball, right? So he finds more stolen cars; what's the problem if a few guys innocent of car theft or intentionally aiding and abetting it get screwed, right? There's another self-riteous guy on that board that goes absolutely berserko over late model imports. I don't recall his moniker, but he hasn't posted in a while. He must not be monitoring the board, or he'd be on this like white on rice.

...and this just in...profile coward "Cooper4me", another self-riteous purist, has checked in!

[N. J.]

So, did he ever run 14" wheels? :)

[steve]

HA ha ha ha, NJ, That caught me off guard! I nearly fell out f my chair laughing.
Jim, You seem to be surprised by Georges behavior. It's actually better than I would have predicted, based on my life experience with law enforcement. NJ, the best thing I can say about cop types, is that they are human; given the power that they have over others, they are bound to abuse it; It is a natural result of having power. I am also human, and although I have none of the usual vices; drugs, alchohol, tobacco, gambling, ilicit sex, etc, I do have a very big, life long problem with people who have been given authority to controll my life and take my time, property, and hard earned money, when I don't play by their rules. The worst I can say, (at least on a 14" wheel thread), is I hate (most) cops with a passion.

[N. J.]

Outside of a couple of speeding tickets (who, me officer?!?"), I've only had four personal experiences with cops. One is a retired cop in my cardiac rehab group. No issues with him. One was the "duty" cop at my high school, "John, the Cop". A pretty cool head given what he had to deal with. One of the car guys at the gas station where I sometimes hung out was a "Reserve Officer" in Philly and would don his uniform to strut around the local Big Boy a couple of hours before his shift. A-hole. The fourth was a Reserve Officer in Cleveland, OH. His day job was a crane operator in the printing press factory where I worked. He spent most of his day in the crapper avoiding work and made the papers when he was dismissed from the force for abuse of power. Double a-hole all around. So, Steve, I guess that makes me two-for-four. Damn shame, that. Oh...and since this was mostly back-in-the-day, all of them but the retired one ran 14"s!!

[N. J.]

TTT OK, I'm taking one more crack at this before I commit to 185/60-13s.
So, is anyone running 14's on other than a Watson frame? If so, and here's the BIG question, where did you find 14's with an offset that wouldn't foul the suspension?!?
It seems that most have +25mm offsets, this for 'tuner' apps. My current Ultralites have a -7mm offset. I could stand even more negative to gain additonal clearance to lower arms, (running a standard rack, not the more appropos Sportspack rack) but less offset is a non-starter, as are spacers.
Again, the reason for 14's is to open up tire selection.

[steve]

I hate to say it NJ, but it looks to me, like the real problem is the controll arms, not tires or wheels. Offsetting the wheels are a bandaid approach, that may help one problem, but creates others. I would re make the controll arms and move the pivot points back where they belong. I know it is a lot more work, but it is the right fix in my opinion. For the excessive engine speeds, I would have taller gears made, before I would go to big wheels/tires on a Mini, but you probably knew that. Good luck, and have a nice holiday season.

[N. J.]

Yeah, I 'hear' you. I know you're a cost-no-object-in-the-quest-to-add-lightness-and-useable-power kinda guy and I respect that. I've put about as much 'big' money in this as I care to, so having a set of gears custom made is a non-starter here. The offset only became an issue when I started looking at 14's. In fact reading your note, it dawned on me that the setup isn't designed for 14's! (DOH!). I just want to lower the revs some because I want use some of the Interstate highways around here without getting in the way (or running 4100rpm). Everything else works fine for me. I did fine with 165/60's, but ruined them hooning around with them underinflated. I'd be on them now if they were still available. So, I think I've covered all the bases, and will go with what's available. Thanks for your input and best of the holidays to you too, mate!

[william75]

If anyone is interested in a set of Sumitomo 185/60 13's, with 90% treadwear left, let me know.....up for sale for local delivery or pick-up in the Pasadena/ Los Angeles Area...$200obo

William