Just Another Mini -There's Millions Of 'em

[Pepper]

Hi Guys

A little test to start ---Find the Mini Feb06
I was originally going to put just another 100hp A-Series on the road ('66 Cooper S in foreground)
The mini I'm going to Vtec is behind this one under the boxes at the rear

http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_findminifeb06.jpg

We'll see

-pepper

[steve]

Well, there's a start. We're not getting any younger!
:mrorange:

[Pepper]

Sorting finding parts
When you're unorganized, every day's like xmas

http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_3foundmini_1247719736_454874.jpg
Boxes moved off the Mini
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_4timetomove14apr09.jpg
B17 teggie w/GS-R hydro trans (That's a "66 Cooper S in background)
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_5teggietime.jpg
Up in the air: A - Series engine ready to pull
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_6engdrsout.jpg

pepper

[Pepper]

Delete This one = Next!!

[Pepper]

Just Another Mini -There's Millions Of 'em

Installed the Ramco subbie -about 4-1/2 hours including marking off & reload time on cut-off whls.
Difficulty: about 1-2 on the 10 scale
After cutting out inner fenders & notching front bumper panel (as per instructions) it slid in easier than a stocker.
-pepper
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6331.jpg
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6356.jpg
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6332.jpg

[Furyof4]

I really do like these subframes. You can see that ALOT of thought was put into it, unlike some others.

What engine are you going to use?

[steve]

Pepper, I like your sheet metal cut lines. I think I will steel your pics for the assembly manual pictures.
:wink:

[Pepper]

I really do like these subframes. You can see that ALOT of thought was put into it, unlike some others.

What engine are you going to use?

FO4:
I missed your post:
I've got an old BlackSheep DB2-pretty clean (pics in my album)
Stock, except for: an 8# flywheel &unorthdx pulley + some China KO of a Skunk intake (lighter than stk anyways)
Trans is from 95 Teggie B18C1
I'm going to start w/good unhacked P-61
I have a stock P75 OBD1 ECU to experiment on/ hack up.
I wasn't originally going to, but, I think I will reseal it since I've got the pan off & I guess put a new WP & oil pump on.
Pepper

[Pepper]

25Aug09

first little install glitch: Teggi cast front engine mount -mine "looks" correct but isn't

here is a picture of both:
One on the left is correct = (one threaded hole) the threaded hole actually has a stud installed oem
The wrong one on the right = (both holes are threaded) the threaded holes actually have studs installed oem

http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg2243_1.jpg
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg2245_1.jpg

-pepper

[Furyof4]

FO4:
I missed your post:
I've got an old BlackSheep DB2-pretty clean (pics in my album)
Stock, except for: an 8# flywheel &unorthdx pulley + some China KO of a Skunk intake (lighter than stk anyways)
Trans is from 95 Teggie B18C1
I'm going to start w/good unhacked P-61
I have a stock P75 OBD1 ECU to experiment on/ hack up.
I wasn't originally going to, but, I think I will reseal it since I've got the pan off & I guess put a new WP & oil pump on.
Pepper

A b17a? Nice, they are a pretty rare motor nowadays. The required components can easily be added to the p75 to run the b17. Checkout Xenocron.com, or phearable.net for chipping kits and info.

[Pepper]

Hi guys:
I wanted to post just one more shot of the different front mounts, as it could have been a problem for me had this been a mount for an A Series (1275 S).
But for a Honda/Teggi what too do:
True story:
So I am bummed out about the wrong front mount, wondering where I can get one at the last minute before the weekend, junk yards are hotter than hell up here and no guarantees --the stuff is pretty picked over.
As I pull into to work, there are some kids across the street yarding a 91 LS engine &trans out of a Teggie, by the time I’m going to lunch old engine is setting next to the car new engine in –“How much for the front mount and a bunch of your old bolts lying around on the ground?” 20$ did it and I went to lunch –and they pulled it off the engine for me.
Try that with an A Series for any part.

Pepper

[Pepper]

Mill trans case more, (see pic of milling device)
Drat that %#@^^%^&ing Steve (It helps of you actually include Steves' name in the mantra)
Installing the eng/trans unit in to subbi about 8 on the 10 scale
But I did it alone -no helpful assistants.
If it was easy ...........

http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6546_1251956053_104227.jpg
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6556.jpg
-Pepper

[Pepper]

Engine /subbi unit in car is a nothing deal
And what's all this noise about intake not fitting??
- Just an extra thick bead of red silicone and -Done!!
-Pepper
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6561.jpg

[Pepper]

Headers--
Beautiful !! -
But -they were a little tight slipping on to the exhaust studs, and fishing them behind the subbi front cross tube -I didn't want to grind the "bullet nose" off the exhaust studs, (I like studs in alum parts)
-Go have a beer -but I don't drink --Maybe an O'Douls?
--------- --------- !!
So I took the edge off the holes in the exhaust header flange on the back side with a small taper reamer (thats' not much).
tapped the headers on with the palm of my hand -one tap -they went right on (like butter).
Nice!
I feel sorry for those guys across the pond (like on the 16Vminiclub site) that don't have a clue about what to do for headers, and Steve is either too far away,
(thou they buy stuff from Summit) or he is not high profile enough for them to be aware of his parts.

-Pepper
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6563.jpg

[Tavis1]

Engine /subbi unit in car is a nothing deal
And what's all this noise about intake not fitting??
- Just an extra thick bead of red silicone and -Done!!
-Pepper
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6561.jpgYIKES! That is scary! What if a piece where to break off and go into the cumbustion cylender?

[steve]

Damn Pepper, read the instructions before you start hacking. That's way to much off the tranny back side. We test fit every frame with an eng/tranny. It probably wasn't positioned properly. You are only supposed to have about 1/16" at that spot. Hope you didn't weaken the case.
Why did you grind out the Header holes???. Remove the studs, put up the manifold, replace studs :roll: , or use bolts to start with. We machine those flange holes, especially the 2 end ones, which are supposed to fit snug on the 2 shouldered Honda locating studs, exactly, (They are only about .002" oversize), so the ports will line up properly with the pipes. I hope you didn't mess up the top and sides of the holes, so you can drop the pipe back down where the ports line up. I cringe at the thought; you should see what goes into making those headers; I am not lying when I say I use dial calipers in many places, and about 6 to 8 hours spent on fitting and aligning all the pipes to get the clearances, joint angles, and fit right, before welding. There are no gaps to fill anywhere. For a header, this is a real precision piece! don't grind it or hammer on it. PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE

BTW, Tavis, you could throw chunks of silicone rubber into a running motor intake, all day long and it wouldn't hurt a thing. You might have to clean up a mess of burnt rubber lying on the ground behind the exhaust pipe is all.
Pepper likes to play games. If you look closely, you will see that the "red silicone" is just Shop Rags plugging the ports, and the pipes lack about an inch of being all the way on. Also, that particular model of intake manifold will require considerable hacking to the bulkhead box-section, if he really intends to use it.

[Pepper]

Steve -it's ok, it's OK
Like I said, no grinding, just took the sharp edge off some of the top holes w/a hand taper reamer (Sears) and they really did tap on w/my gloved hand,
(I have soft hands)

As to the tranny case, I did have to take that much off (see pics) & cut the subbi hole larger no explanation, no excuses; I had the package in-out 3 times, finally just cut more off the back side of diff.
As to ruining or overcutting on parts, don't worry, be happy, this isn't my first rodeo.

And, yes, Flubber, gaskets, and small screws, on a Honda, --if you're lucky
Engines with the squish or quench area don't fair as well -they get small parts stuck in the deck of the head and the piston in the quench area.
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6516.jpg
Alum SBC Brodeck Head shown:
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6517.jpg

-and as we all know, 50% of all race parts (or high performance parts) must be sacrificed to the parts god
-Pepper

[Tavis1]

Damn Pepper, read the instructions before you start hacking. That's way to much off the tranny back side. We test fit every frame with an eng/tranny. It probably wasn't positioned properly. You are only supposed to have about 1/16" at that spot. Hope you didn't weaken the case.
Why did you grind out the Header holes???. Remove the studs, put up the manifold, replace studs :roll: , or use bolts to start with. We machine those flange holes, especially the 2 end ones, which are supposed to fit snug on the 2 shouldered Honda locating studs, exactly, (They are only about .002" oversize), so the ports will line up properly with the pipes. I hope you didn't mess up the top and sides of the holes, so you can drop the pipe back down where the ports line up. I cringe at the thought; you should see what goes into making those headers; I am not lying when I say I use dial calipers in many places, and about 6 to 8 hours spent on fitting and aligning all the pipes to get the clearances, joint angles, and fit right, before welding. There are no gaps to fill anywhere. For a header, this is a real precision piece! don't grind it or hammer on it. PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE

BTW, Tavis, you could throw chunks of silicone rubber into a running motor intake, all day long and it wouldn't hurt a thing. You might have to clean up a mess of burnt rubber lying on the ground behind the exhaust pipe is all.
Pepper likes to play games. If you look closely, you will see that the "red silicone" is just Shop Rags plugging the ports, and the pipes lack about an inch of being all the way on. Also, that particular model of intake manifold will require considerable hacking to the bulkhead box-section, if he really intends to use it.

Anything else other than fuel and air (even that has it's breaking point) is never good going into the cumbustion chamber......

[steve]

I didn't say it was a good thing,........just said silicone rubber wouldn't hurt the motor, which is true. Geeze, I can't believe I am replying to that.

[Pepper]

How did we get into Fluber?
So-- Anyway___
So many manifolds
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6636.jpg

Saw
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6638.jpg

Maybe We-bbers?
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6640.jpg

Only if I cut "em in half -Damn!
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6642.jpg

But! --They're still sexy after all these years
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6644_1252355951_479099.jpg
-Pepper

[Pepper]

Hey N.J. I've waited at least a year to duplicate your "Ready to work" (Oops) I meant "Armed & Dangerous" picture -yours is still better -more aggression -Drat!!
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6649.jpg

Ok -back to work
-pepper

[Pepper]

Take Steve's' advice when installing header retention sprgs & wear safety goggles * note spl install tool*
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6669.jpg

I'll mention silicone for the last time now:
Well- I took out the rags & the double bead of silicone: the manifold fits much better now.
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6671.jpg

-pepper

[Pepper]

The rack will clear the diff -cool
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6662.jpg

Rebuilt the rack & cleaned up the u-bolts
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6674.jpg

Rotate the gaiter retention clamp screws to the rear - the racks clears -slick!
(in this pic I haven't rotated the clamps yet -oops)
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6675.jpg

-pepper

[Tavis1]

I didn't say it was a good thing,........just said silicone rubber wouldn't hurt the motor, which is true. Geeze, I can't believe I am replying to that.
So you say.....

[N. J.]

Your pose is just more futuristic!
Weld away!

N J

[Pepper]

Continued:
P-30 (B16a) intake clears stock bulkhead

http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6655.jpg

P-30 Souffle' = bake 1 hour @ 250F

http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6676.jpg

Bottom: weld-up 9/16 V-gap, then back in oven to brown for another hour -Done
Manifold flange surface didn't warp -I am mildly surprised at that
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6679.jpg

-pepper

[steve]

Was there a reason for the clearance space big enough to drive a small tank through. at the expense of decent flow dynamics??? :shock:

[Tavis1]

Was there a reason for the clearance space big enough to drive a small tank through. at the expense of decent flow dynamics??? :shock:
So let me get this straight captain genius, what minimal, unnoticeable difference of air flow that might occur on slightly tilting the intake as he has done to maintain structural integrity of the shell is unacceptable but allowing chunks of rubber to go through your motor is acceptable?! That makes perfect sense......

[steve]

If you have ever done any flow bench work, you would know. But since you obviously have not, here is what happens: The chunks of rubber have a harder time getting past the welded angle and more importantly, the mis-matched runner cross sections. They could get stuck and build up, blocking the runners until the vacuum in the cylinders gets so high that the walls colapse causing the pistons to lock up, possibly breaking the crank. That means the motor would stop and you would have to walk home! :shock:

[Pepper]

Quote:
Steve: “Was there a reason for the clearance space big enough to drive a small tank through, at the expense of decent flow dynamics??? “
Tavis1:
So let me get this straight captain genius, what minimal, unnoticeable difference of air flow that might occur on slightly tilting the intake as he has done to maintain structural integrity of the shell is unacceptable but allowing chunks of rubber to go through your motor is acceptable?! That makes perfect sense......
Steve:
If you have ever done any flow bench work, you would know. But since you obviously have not, here is what happens: The chunks of rubber have a harder time getting past the welded angle and more importantly, the mis-matched runner cross sections.

Now, Now Boys this is ‘sposed to be FUN!!
Tavis1:
Steve:
Hi -nice to “hear from you”

I had only about a years experience with this Honda/Mini Problem, but from the start, there is this ongoing question about intake /bulkhead clearance/ interference on
Honda B Series:

I have seen on the various forums the endless discussion concerning the many different answers to the same problem, to wit:

Intake to bulkhead clearance:

Cut the bulkhead ? (This is a no for me)
The whole car is designed around this major structural component
like the top don’t cut it off , leave it alone, ?

Extend the front end ?
Another legitimate option –but not in my world

Modifying the intake manifold (maybe a possibility I’ll think about this)
How about ITB’s ? (a costly solution)
How about fabricating an intake from scratch? (Not for average Mini owner, but possible, yes)
How about maybe building one from used exhaust pipe? ( Not for average mini owner, but possible, yes )
Hey, how about cutting the stock cast loomeium manifold ? (possible for average Mini owner)
And just to make it simple, why don’t I try it with tools that the average Mini Hybrid builder would find around the house? –er, –well almost


Tools:
Safety glasses, face shield best
Saw: anything will do bandsaw, sawzall, I have done it with a hand hacksaw.
Welder: if you are hard-core Mini, you have one
Oxy acetylene torch will work –practice on junk (screen doors, other manifolds, not Honda)
Some of these soft solder loomeium repair schemes may work, though I haven’t tried them ‘cause I have Earl Idealarc.
Air hand piece, or best: electric hand piece w/speed controller
Your wife’s oven, when she is out of town, preferably, (or one out in the garage)

But -Back to the above discussion –when you do it like I did the runners line up inside exactly with a groove at the cut line.
OK Steve, so I loose some hp what 3% ? -That’s 5hp; 6% that’s like 10hp.
My 1380 A Series had (95octane) like 95 whl, would pull 6700 in 4th easy, w/3.4 diff that’s like 110mph, w/ 1430# car
This thing I’m looking at now has more cc’s more valves, more gears, I’ll give away the
10 hp, and just slip the manifold on like butter.
And like you mentioned somewhere, what was it 7000-8000 in 5th = suicide anyhow
Anyways -I just had to gear down my antique Bonanza Minibike from 45 to 28mph –too fast for me.
-Pepper

[Tavis1]

If you have ever done any flow bench work, you would know. But since you obviously have not, here is what happens: The chunks of rubber have a harder time getting past the welded angle and more importantly, the mis-matched runner cross sections. They could get stuck and build up, blocking the runners until the vacuum in the cylinders gets so high that the walls colapse causing the pistons to lock up, possibly breaking the crank. That means the motor would stop and you would have to walk home! :shock:What will get stuck? Whats blocking the runners? Whats building up? What rubber getting past what welds? The welds are before the "rubber mock up". This is just jiber jaber throw together. You are putting an oversized engine in a car that is twice as light as the car that it was designed to go in. In other words the power to wieght ratio is so great. Very rarely if ever will you be going full throttle to floor very much at all so losing maybe, at most 3% of air flow you are not going to notice. With or with out cutting the intake and rewelding it is not going to make a difference. You are still going to be able to smoke the tires, you are still going to be able to break 100MPH with out a sweat and you will still be able to scream down the road. So unless you are going for exact drag times at the race way and have the throttle pegged open for an intire run like drag raceing it doesn't make a differance. Your argument would make sense if he cut the intake and used silicone hoses, but he is not. Even doing "parking lot racing" or SCCA racing your not in the throttle enough to make a difference. If anything where you are stabbing the throttle in an out to make the coarse because you do have so much extra power you are going to have more of a problem with wheel spin.

Silicone going into the cumbustion chamber is very bad, I have seen with my own eye's and had to rebuild a motor where too much RTV was used, got stuck in the cylnder and bent some valves and damaged the rings.

[Pepper]

ANYWAYS ----back to Work-----

Diff to Subframe clearance: Doesn't look it but 1/2 of back of diff is perfectly flat not "rippled"
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000039.jpg

Just a shot under left front fender -I'm sure I can get 15's in that opening -er 12's ?
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000044.jpg
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000045.jpg

If you work alone; tired of fighting that boxend with the brick on it when installing the rear subbi bolts-push against it with a small screwdriver whilst turning the bolt from the bottom -then to get real tight, push against washer -bigger screwdriver then OK (make sure the nuts turn freely on bolts beforehand)
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000048.jpg
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000050.jpg

Nice fit -use lots of neverseize on the 2 large metric capscrews
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000054.jpg

-Pepper

[steve]

Pepper, Lookin good. I have one of those solid, light weight pulleys, but was warned by the "experts" that it will cause the crank to break eventually (from the Harmonics). I would like to use one, so let me know how it works out. I use to run Chevys in my Digger, without any ballancer or pulley at all, (just a stub to seal the timing cover), and never had a problem; Other guys were running just the center hub without the outer ring; but then you don't get a lot of time on a drag motor either. I don't know much about the Hondas quirks yet, so I think I'll play it safe.
SA

[Furyof4]

There is alot of controversy in the Honda community about lightweight pulleys. Some expert builders swear bye them some swear at them. If its a stock B16a/b or B17 I think you'll be fine running one, as long as the engines not going to be kept at high rpm for long spans of time. Like on a road course. Some Honda engines came with undampened pulleys from the factory. There were usually shorter stroke engines(B16B and D15B)so I'm sure that has something to do with it.

I personally have never run one so I can't comment from experience.

[steve]

I found that most of the ones swearing by them are the ones who build/sell them. I have lightened my stock pulley by cutting off the outer one and turning down the back one, leaving only the middle pulley with the rubber isolater intact. The car will be use for weekend track flogging, and autocross, so until the issue gets resolved, I think I will live with the weight. BTW, that 6 pound wheel and 7 inch clutch really made the throttle crispy! and it still idles smoothly at 750. The tiny 4.5" carbon clutch only weighs a 2.5 pounds, and it modulates better!, but 3,000$ + is A stretch, unless I can find a used one that isn't used up. Fury, do you know anything about the Tilton carbon clutchs?

[Furyof4]

I found that most of the ones swearing by them are the ones who build/sell them.

Very true. Alot of people machine a stock pulley down to one ring like you did. Works great and still works as a dampener.

The only thing I know about the carbon clutches is that they can be slipped forever without burning up. A lot of awd evo and subaru guys use them because they can't shock the trans too much without breakage. A carbon clutch helps them slip some at launch. Ive also heard that they are loud when dissengaged.

[Pepper]

Steve, Fo4,
Hi
.
From my perspective I have wrestled with that question for years
Got to have a harmonic dampener from (name of this months’ company) or the crank will go.
Then there are the blower engine setups, endless list:
Most have no dampener, so that has been my approach: the belt drive is / are the dampner.

I ran an A Series large main 1100 (MG Midget) with an early “tin” crank pulley, knife edged crank, and a flywheel that was 3/8” thick; valve springs shimmed close to coil bind @ full lift,- wound the piss out of it for 2 years –take out the cam, crank &springs every 3 races, ring the crank, re-grind the cam, put it back in –usually with the same main bearings, and go, nothing broke.
Then I got sophisticated, put a Fisher balancer on & the nose came off the 1st crank, Ouch, so – go figure.
Steve I think you did fine by lightning the stock pulley good, conservative.
But I am going for the Banzai approach, that’s long enough, But which one?\

Type R Banzai courtesy of S. Honda @ 1# 12-3/4oz
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_cimg6760_1253341302_432507.jpg

Unorthodox @ 8-1/4oz
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000044_1253341449_126563.jpg

-Pepper

[Pepper]

Hi guys:

Thought I would add some pictures: ECU plug pin removal -with a dental pick they come out like butter.
More photos in my album section
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000058.jpg
ECU plug caps are unlocked to show connector pins & wires
http://www.vtecminis.com/files/posted_images/user_170_resize_of_p1000069.jpg

-Pepper

[Pepper]

Mini Fab
Re: the question to Steve A as to how many vtec minis are on the head of a pin
I’m going to rephrase it to any kind of vtec conversion:

I’ve been wondering when this question would come up.

Perhaps my experience reflects others’
And from what I have seen I’m on the upside from most of the builds.
A few years ago I bought a 73Mini 1000 w/exactly 26000miles, it was only 10-12yrs old at the time (was going to convert it to an “S”) –should be pretty nice –right?
Sooo –Stuff happens -- it was parked in a dry garage for 25 years: & guess what: a Canadian Mini you got it –it was a rust bucket.
Every piece of the suspension I touched was toast, +every bolt rusted solid, every suspension ball pin was worn thru to the metal, the rear subbie was bent, some idiot had installed the stereo with a chainsaw & covered it w/some insulation & upholstery trim.
I think the car had been in an accident when it was fairly new so it was fixed like an insurance job, (it had a nice re-paint) & new 10” tires & wheels.
But -I bought it cheap & drove it home.

HOWEVER:
Compared to the non-North American Minis I have seen in some of the Mini Forums on the internet, it is perfect, -still, it took 5+ months of work (& a LOT of phone calls) I hadn’t planned on.
Now I have a bunch of unassembled, abet shinny parts.
I started in June-July, So- if the engine conversion was the biggest aspect of the project, I would be finished or close to.
Pepper

[Pepper]

Re: Honda parts:
They are so bitchin come apart & go back together like butter :)

pepper

[Pepper]

B-Series Heads continued

[Pepper]

They've adjusted my meds:
Now all my rusty Mini parts are shiny, everything's beautifu & happyl
-Wait a minute, --I've been reading DarrenW's posts for nearly a year now, Happy Lappy Land & Smarties--He's on Drugs too!! --better than mine I bet :twisted:

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Pepper

[Mini fab]

Hi Pepper, Nice to see your parts are all shiny and clean, Can't wait to see your project to moved on. By the way advance Happy New Year!